108 vs 110 lobe separation 108 vs 110 lobe separation

Like one cam is 112 degree and the next is 108 the 108 cam will allow less "leakage"? As the RPM's go up this is not as critical as the higher velocity of the air/fuel moving thru keeps it from getting contaminated. OK, what is hydraboost, and how do you like how the cam performs??? For Example: A 110-degree lobe separation means that the peak opening points of the Intake and Exhaust lobes is 110 degrees apart. With a 108 degree lobe center, a cam will have a rougher idle and produce less vacuum due to more overlap. I don't know about 13 to one but I have seen 12 to one on a 350 chev in hot rod article, BUT the guy soft petals around on the street with no full throttle use and puts racing gas in at the track. Come join the discussion about restoration, modifications, NOS parts, troubleshooting, VIN codes, and more! Professionally ported & polished iron 4V head with titanium intake valves, stainless exhaust, titanium retainers & keepers & dual springs. JavaScript is disabled. The lobe separation angle is the angle in camshaft degrees between the maximum lift points, or centerlines, of the intake and exhaust lobes. Howards Cam Vs Comp Cam: Which Is The Best Option For You? The only reason I . A cam with a 112 lobe center will idle smoother than a cam with a 110 lobe center. by jim martin Mon May 12, 2003 7:10 pm, Post pump gas, no additive's as well, runs good, i will put the highest octane in, which is 93.. Torsion Beam Vs Multi Link: Who Wins the Battle? The 114 cam will give more low end torque, good midrange, less power up high. The engine would idle a lot rougher and generate worse exhaust emissions largely because of unburned fuel.. In terms of horsepower, the disparity between all three cams was only 6.5 hp, with a scant 100 rpm separating the peaks. It had a robust powerband with tons of usable torque. JavaScript is disabled. Lobe seperation cant be seperated from duration,the 2 are connected.the old duntov cam had a lot less duration than many new cams so the valve overlap was not extreme and the engine ran with a gentle lope.Increase the duration by 20* and this cam would shake a 283 out of the car at idle,but then increase the lobe seperation by 4* and the motor will have a gentle lope again. Now lets move to the exhaust. by mike thompson Tue May 13, 2003 4:03 am, Post L'auteur prsente une nouvelle contribution de floristique nord-africaine consacre la flore du massif du Rif et des rgions du nord du Maroc, dans le cadre gographique prdfini par le Catalogue des Plantes vasculaires du Nord du Maroc de Valds et al. Nitrous engines, which make plenty of power and torque, often run wide lobe separation angles to moderate cylinder pressures and temperatures. The first cam featured a wide 120-degree LSA, while cam number two narrowed the angle to 112 degrees. In my opinion, the rougher the idle the better! Many later model engines use wide lobe separation angles to reduce overlap for idle quality and fuel economy. Yearh, I have been reading a lot about this issue. You cannot look at just the LCA without looking at other specs too. The 110o will make more power overall. This process slows down the reaction rates of the air-fuel mixture, causing temperatures to drop and preventing the engine from overheating. We will safeguard your e-mail and only send content you request. If the exhaust valve closes too early it will trap some of the spent gases in the combustion chamber, and if it closes too late it will over-scavenge the chamber and take out too much of the charge, again creating an artificially lean condition. Call for details with your specific combination. Another difference between the two involves the power curve. its got a 3.73 posi and the Stock 4 speed with a very low 3.42 1st gear. 2023 Power Automedia. 554"/577" lift. It made 472.4 lb-ft at peak, a 21.5lb-ft disparity from the 101 cam. This is why the LS series, and many other modern engines, can make great power on top and bottom with wide LSA camshafts and why a plethora of factory cylinder heads are flowing near (or above) 300 cfm. If that were the only consideration, the 101 cam is the clear winner. If you look at the cam card, you will find a maximum lift column on the card.Now, all you have to do is, add up the two mentioned maximum angles and divide the summation by 2. The article was called "Separation of Power" and they tested 5 cams ranged from 106 to 114 LSA. If it occurs too late, it will lean out the cylinder and greatly hinder the performance of the engine. But this is not the only reason. by flat4racer17 Mon May 12, 2003 1:40 pm, Post Tests 2 and 3 meant dissecting the motor on the dyno to get the old cam out. If a street car has smaller lift and duration numbers, they might run 112 or 114. Cam and Lifters, Hydraulic Roller Tappet, Advertised Duration 282/288, Lift .589/.600, Chevy, Big Block, Kit. That notion is completely false. Ed JTO learn to park Joined May 31, 2009 180 Posts What Are The Wastegate Stuck Open Symptoms? 110 for sure. So, this LSA is suitable for your engine and its components. It creates an unsteady manifold vacuum condition that, on a fuel-injected engine, confuses manifold air pressure (MAP) sensors, making it hard for them to regulate fueling. Epilepsy is a chronic noncommunicable brain (neurological) disorder associated with excessive neuronal activity and unprovoked seizures referred to as 'epileptic seizures' and sensory-motor deficits that cause neurobiological, cognitive, psychological, and social consequences to the patient. The lumpy-idling 101 LSA cam churned out an average of 484.0 hp at 6,100 rpm with 493.9 lb-ft of torque at 4,400 rpm. . Split duration/lift only helps when your intake/exhaust ratio is low on the exhaust side. I've seen that Webcam cams can be ordered with either of the above. But it is a piece of good news for your engine. He also enjoys reading books a lot and his favorite author is Paula Coelho. In a blower motor when the valve timing events are where they need to be the lobe sep will usually wind up in the 114-115 range on most Combos. I bet you won't see a bit of difference. Lucky for us, Brian Tooley Racing stepped up with a dual spring package that allowed us to safely run our 0.624-lift cam. Leave the 108 for solid rollers turning big rpms. I have 108 for LSA and my headlights take awhile to go up when the car is idling. When degreeing in the camshaft, you are making sure the intake centerline is precisely where the cam is intended to be. I just bought a 86b Webcam and Im using 1.5's. A cam card with its myriad numbers, acronyms, and abbreviations is one red-pen stroke away from a failed math test. It will have slightly higher vacuum at idle, feel smoother through the power curve but have a bit less midrange. so it is a solid flat tappet, torker intake, 1" 4-hole tapered spacer and 750 carb (QFT) transmission is a wide ratio toploader, rear is a 9" 3.89 geared 26"rear tires. But nothing comes without a cost, and idle vacuum suffers as LSA shrinks. The 114o lobe will add a lot more vacuum at idle. Frontal lobe epilepsy (FLE), the second most common focal epilepsy syndrome after temporal lobe epilepsy (TLE), is frequently drug-resistant and MRI-negative. Mechanical aspects like maximum torque, narrower powerband, higher cranking compression rate, efficient compression rate, effective EGR effect, and lower oil consumption rate increase the car engines efficiency and make it energy efficient. It affects the amount of valve overlap; that is the brief period of time when both the intake and exhaust valves are open.. Increased overlap improves upper RPM power. The final, 108-degree cam stepped power up even further, with peaks of 572 hp at 6,300 rpm and 544 lb-ft at 5,200 rpm. Pinning the tail on the perfect cam can certainly be a difficult task. For example, an oval-track small-block that needs to motivate the car off the turns quickly might have a narrow LSA of around 106 degrees, resulting in more overlap. hydraboost is the same as a vacuum brakebooster, only the booster is replaced by a unit that does the same but under hydraulic pressure. The lobe separation angle is the angle in camshaft degrees between the maximum lift points, or centerlines, of the intake and exhaust lobes, says Eric Bolander of Erson Cams. While lift and duration are most often discussed when talk turns to cam timing, there is a third variable that has a decided effect on both power and personality. 106 LSA: So, if I talk about the powerband at 106 LSA, the powerband is narrow. Bad idea in my view. The intake air control valve (IAC), which regulates idle speed, also has to work overtime and often attempts to "catch" the idle, but usually shoots high or low. 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The 120-degree cam minimized torque production through most of the curve, while the 112-degree cam offered more torque but slightly less peak power. Engine builders Chuck Lawrence, left, and Doug Patton. 110 LSA: On the other hand, 110 LSA is comparatively a wider LSA; it can generate a massive amount of RPM for the engine. You must log in or register to reply here. As usual, Marc (aka Master) is correct. lobe centers and lobe separation are 2 different things . A forum community dedicated to hot rod owners and enthusiasts. Typically, narrower lobe separation develops peak torque at lower rpm and widening the separation tends to build peak torque higher in the rpm range. I've seen a few comments in threads on here that have said things like "going to the 112LC from the 108LC gives 4lbft more torque at the bottom and 2bhp more at the top" yet this would seem to go against what webcam say on. 1966 Toyota Landcruiserunder construction. I do believe that stock VW seperation is 108 and 112 is used alot in turbo and midrange cams for VW's while 106 is used for the top end cams. Performance Distributors Keeps The Spark Alive With SOS, A New Diesel Piston That Increases Power And Reduces, Shop Tour: Brian Tooley Racing Expands To Be A One-Stop, Melling Offers New Timing Kits for Ford 4.6L and 5.4L SOHC, Reborn Retro Blower Packs Positive-Displacement Power For Fox, EngineLabs Tool Of The Month: Summit Racing Lb-In Torque, Why You Should NOT Emissions Delete Your Diesel, Can A Cold Air Intake Really Help Your Trucks, Ask The Expert: We Want Your Questions For Canton Racing, The Answers: DeatschWerks Responses To Your Fuel System, SEMA 2022: GEARWRENCH Leveled Up With Distinct Quality Hand, EngineLabs Tool Of The Month: Summit Racing AN Wrench, HOLY SHIP! Nothing makes mouths drop like a car that sounds and looks like it can't keep it self still! Hopefully it turns out great. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. by randy331 Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:00 pm, Post BUT, 114 will have more vacuum at idle, which will work better with some fuelinjection. Valve lift will bear weight in any decision regarding LSA. Okay, have a sigh because you have opened the right door. Given that nitrous works best in the mid- to upper-rpm range, nitrous-powered engines need a wider lobe separation, like 112 . Build your own custom newsletter with the content you love from EngineLabs, directly to your inbox, absolutely FREE! I know a little about cams. I have used some cut on a 110 that worked well too, but they never sounded as good as the tight ones. 10 Tuning the timing curve and fuel from the 42-lb/hr FAST injectors was handled by this Holley HP management system. JavaScript is disabled. (ICL + ECL) / 2 = LOBE SEPARATION ANGLE (LSA) LSA is a RESULT of the PROPER events. The SAME can be said. A good amount of idle vacuum or increased idle vacuum found at 110 LSA advances the engines efficiency. There are General guidelines about the effects of LSA but it should not be the deciding factor in choosing a cam. I've seen a few comments in threads on here that have said things like "going to the 112LC from the 108LC gives 4lbft more torque at the bottom and 2bhp more at the top" yet this would seem to go against what webcam say on. . My engine shop builds all kinds of hot rod motors, and they told me that because I am running a 4 speed manual, I will better be able to take advantage of the 108 LSA. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. According to the Motortrend, LSA (Lobe Separation Angle) is a wonderful approximation of the operation of the engine because it takes into account the relative time of the intake-valve events (intake opening, intake closing) and the exhaust-valve events (exhaust opening, exhaust closing) concerning each other.Above mentioned sequential activities allow LSA to be an accurate representation of the operation of the engine. (LOBE SEPARATION ANGLE)cam CRANES 110921 has the intake close at 45 degrees ABDC while the wider lsa CRANES 114681 closes the valves at 50.0 ABDC . = Moderately Wide 110-108 Deg. 110 LSA: The 110 LSA shows up mechanically advantageous in mechanical aspects like higher RPM, lower engine knock, moderate cylinder pressure, improved idle vacuum, and higher piston-to-valve clearance. Walter Noah is a process engineer who has a knack for resolving even the toughest technical issue. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. A 112-114 degree lobe center will have a better idle and produce more vacuum with less overlap. Cam swaps are all the rage and for good reason. Also, the wider LSA contributes to chassis stability in drag racing by avoiding the delivery of a ferocious blast of power that would break tire traction. More over-simplifications: Anybody here run a 108 LSA? Selecting a camshaft for a given engines purpose usually involves a compromise between low- or high-end power options, and the lobe separation angle (LSA) is one of those factors where engine builders have to make a choice between those priorities. Say you have a cam ground on a 115 and the other on a 110. A cam with a 112lobe center will idle smoother than a cam with a 110lobe center. It has been tried in the VW business earlier, but then they gave it up because of problems with too high temperatures around the exhaust valve, causing them them to break. I believe you have got the idea of what you were seeking. Really wide lobe separation angles are used in boosted applications. This is ground into the cam and can't be changed without changing cams. 106 LSA: On the contrary, if we look at the 106 LSA, we will find it more advantageous and energy efficient than the 110 LSA engine. Before getting to the cam profiles, we had to make sure we had a reasonable test engine. Moreover, a user from the Chevelle forum said. And better gas mileage. The lobe separation angle is the angle between the two camshaft lobes that act on the valves. Boom, you get the lobe separation angle of that engine. Things like idle vacuum, fuel economy, and tuning all factor into picking the right cam. A few other major and, Read More Heres What Causes Your Car to Bog Down When AcceleratingContinue, Your email address will not be published. 2.1.3 Transponder reply modes (air-to-ground) 2.1.3.1 Transponders shall respond to Mode A interrogations in accordance with the provisions of 3.1.1.7.12.1 and to Mode C interrogations in accordance . An icon used to represent a menu that can be toggled by interacting with this icon. *If you do not have enough vacuum, you can in some cases install a vacuum canister or reservoir, which works by storing the peak vacuum in the reservoir. We borrowed Westech Performance's shop mule, a 370ci small-block Chevy and its SuperFlow 902 engine dyno and spent a day running each cam back-to-back to gauge its effect on peak horsepower, peak torque, cranking compression, idle vacuum, and the powerband as a wholeall the variables that define an engine's character on the street and track. 4-linked72, what cam are you using that has a 108 LSA? It a 355. thanks in advance. But i would nt go any wider than 110. How do the lobe separations change when you factor in turbocharging? Also present during testing was a set of 1 7/8-inch Kooks headers, Comp hydraulic roller lifters, and F-body oil pan. It idles very well at 650 rpm with a nice lope and runs strong. That is no accident. If all the specs remained the same what will going from a 110 to a 112 lsa do to driving characteristics? 108 versus 110 will drive the power band down. 112 vs 114 lobe centers You cannot tell the differance in the two . Everyone has a different idea of gentle.While its true that the duntov cam may seem rough in a 283 it is still a factory offering and they never go to radical on there profiles for street cars.If you want a rough idle, try a 283 with a .550'lift roller and 13.5 to 1 compression,THATS ROUGH. Frankly cams with a 108-114 lca unless in the perfect combo you won't usually see more than 15hp and you won't really feel the difference except for either a peaky or broad power band. Well, there can be different reasons for this problem. 04 Minor modifications to the factory windage tray were necessary to work with the new stroker assembly. I think you are asking a lot of a cam . i've heard of this being done something about the massive amounts of duration allowes gasses to disipate? too much for the street? somthing to that aspect. 106 LSA: At 106 LSA, the cylinder pressure is a bit higher. This comparison highlights that the 106 LSA is a good performer in a few mechanical aspects than the 110 LSA. Its also critical that valve overlap is kept to a minimum as the induction system can create a suction that pulls water into the motor, adds Bolander. i have a 4 bolt 351C, stock bore, 10.5 cr with 351C Boss heads ,boss crank and rods. Comparison Table Between 106 Vs 110 Lobe Separation Angle. Most cars use more than, Read More Does It Matter Which Ignition Coil Goes Where? On the surface, the camshaft's job is simpleopen and close the valvesbut beyond that topical description, it's one of the most mysterious and misunderstood engine components. by MELWAY Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:18 pm, Post 108 is very tight producing lower vacuum and more of a 2 stroke "punch" powerband. Copyright 2022, S&S Motorsports LLC, All Rights Reserved - Powered by, http://www.webcamshafts.com/cam_glossary.html, http://www.newcovenant.com/speedcrafter haft/3.htm, Webcam 86A 108LC w/1.5 vs 86B 112LC w/1.3s. Similarly, 110 LSA is also found to be a more fabulous performer in several mechanical aspects. A wide LSA reduces valve overlap, softens the idle and improves overall drivabilityespecially on the street where performance engines benefit from 112 to 114 LSA. When boost or nitrous are introduced, and engine builders contemplate choices between single-, dual- or reverse-pattern camshafts then the discussion gets muchmore technical. Contrariwise, 106 LSA car engines are the best choice for people seeking energy-efficient cars with moderate engine power. The other thing is that you can make more power with a smaller aftermarket cam. Adding an aftermarket cam to an otherwise stock engine can boost output by 40-60 hp (or more) with no other changes (except possibly a valvespring upgrade). Most street cams are ground 4 degrees advanced which boosts bottom end, throttle response, vacume, mpg driveability etc. The 110 is probably a better choice for a performance street engine. It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong. Another important measurement was the torque production at 4,000 rpm and this cam checked in with 484 lb-ft of torque. by ANT Thu May 15, 2003 6:44 pm, Copyright 2022, S&S Motorsports LLC, All Rights Reserved - Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. The 108-degree cam offered both the most power and torque, but idle quality suffered compared to the wider LSAs. This has been my long time understanding! To illustrate the differences offered by changes in the LSA, we had Crane cams grind us three cam profiles that shared the same lift and duration figures, but differed only in the LSA. The extra cubic inches will smooth out a rough idle in a 327. On the cranking compression test, Brul recorded 175 psi, a 10-psi drop from the outgoing 101 cam. We'll send you raw engine tech articles, news, features, and videos every week from EngineLabs. Armed with more information on camshaft theory, what will you build? 292S-112: 292/292 - 240/240 - .495/.495 - 112* - 3400-7200. Also know as Lobe Separation; Lobe Center is simply the distance between the peak opening points on the Intake and Exhaust lobes. I also like the 106 lobe separation with the intake on 103. After swimming through the entire article, I hope you are now well aware of the 102 vs 110 lobe separation angle. But, you may find a lobe wider than a 120-degree angle in any car engine.But, I must let you know that those are customized car engines prepared for any special purpose, such as racing, drag racing, off-road riding, or performing stunts. Lobe sepsration is an advanced description for overlap.If you take a cam on a 112,and grind it on a 108,you add more overlap,the time the valves are both open.Narrower lobe centers mean more low end and midrange torque,along with a peakier powerband,and a slightly rougher idle.Tradeoffs are sensitivity to octane ratings,total timing, and air fuel ratio.A lot to swallow I know,hope this helps you. The #1 intake lobe centerline is usually between 100 by ANT Tue May 13, 2003 1:08 pm, Post That means your engine can produce more power with a minimum amount of fuel combustion. This recommendation is only if you shift at no more than 7000. A mobile functional near-infrared spectroscopy (fNIRS) was used to record cerebral oxygenation signals in the left prefrontal cortex (LPFC), right prefrontal cortex (RPFC), left parietal lobe (LPL), and right parietal lobe (RPL) and analyze the EC of the cerebral cortex. While most of our customers know what lift and duration are, most are unfamiliar with the term Lobe Center and how it affects the engines performance. What Is the SBC Header Bolt Torque? On a naturally aspirated engine, the lobe separation angle has an effect on whether the engine reaches peak torque a little earlier or later in the rpm range. And better gas mileage. Lobe separations gives lots of overlap and lobe centers just happens when the grinder decides how the peak of the lobe will arrive on a specific grind by their tooling. so the power will come on a litter sooner with the 114, and fall off a little sooner? It affects the amount of valve overlap; that is the brief period of time when both the intake and exhaust valves are open. It affects the amount of valve overlap; that is the brief period of time when both the intake and exhaust valves are open. Thanks for the replies, particularly that link Marc, very informative. in some cases,, the average torque can equal out. Is There a Sequence? This causes the engine's street manners and tuning to become fickle. 106 LSA: The scale of efficient compression rises at 106 LSA. Builds More High-RPM Power Increase Piston-Intake Valve Clearance Decrease Piston-Exhaust Valve Clearance EFFECTS OF CHANGING LOBE SEPERATION ANGLE (LSA) Tighten (smaller LSA number) Moves Torque to Lower RPM Increases Maximum Torque Narrow Power band Builds Higher Cylinder Pressure Increase Chance of Engine Knock Increase Cranking Compression But, you may wonder knowing that a higher valve clearance rate reduces the chance of damaging the valve by the piston. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Disclaimer: Remember to always consult with an expert first before trying anything at home. Idle vacuum showed a considerable spike to 14.7 in-Hg, likely the difference between being able to run power brakes and a mandatory leg workout. [img]http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/downsideup09/DSCF2616-1.jpg[/img], [img]http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs139.snc1/5928_111214857139_110806152139_2127222_6826389_n.jpg[/img]. Brul spun the engine over with the dyno's starters and recorded 185 psi of cranking compression. or just enough to keep the neighbors pissed? 106 LSA: There is a scale of standard cranking compression of the engine. by mrsmythe Mon May 12, 2003 11:15 am, Post "Ninety-nine percent of cranking compression is dictated by static compression ratio and intake-valve closing point," said Comp Cams' Billy Godbold. One segment that truly benefits from a wider LSA is the marine marine market. Our content is merely suggestive, not intended to use without proper safety precautions and advice. Simply put, both 106 and 110 lobe separation angles have many advantages and disadvantages. whats the difference in how the car will run. " - Voltaire. 110* LSA - lobe separation angle (lobe displacement angle) The +2* means your intake lobe centerline is advanced to obtain a 108* ICL - intake centerline and a 112* ECL - exhaust centerline. If you're an OEM automaker looking for a steady idle, good fuel economy, and passing tailpipe emissions, this is the cam of choice. camshaft is a Cranecams F238.